Curse

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 09, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamm bamm bamm

That's how I see it anyway. I hope my terrible memory got the terminology right

. I don't know how far off base I am, but I guess we'll see.

I think your statement is just about accurate, we'll have to wait and see.

Whenever you've got a community of players who dismiss people who have less than five million gold as "lucky" or "Ebayers", they've certainly lost touch with the masses of Guild Wars players who play for the game itself, and not for their "perfect" rare items. The way I see it is having your playerbase seperated into two communities (the haves and have nots, as stated in another thread) then in my opinion it's indicitive that something's got to give (French Revolution, anyone?). Perhaps next one of the anti-inscriptionists will be saying Jeff Strain has said "let them eat cake" [/sarcasm]

Abnaxus · Oct 09, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

which goes to the heart of my point, the only stake i have in what inscriptions will do to the economy, is what it will do to the game itself, and the effect it will have on the future gaming experience of the people i know&care about.

You should explain better who are "the people i know&care about".
From you previous posts, I got the idea that you're speaking about a specific category of players, that is players who consider that the ultimate GW goal is collecting uber rare unique items, and work to reach this goal.

In my opinion and from my experience, this is a very little minority of the player base, and, opposite as many have said, they will not ensure the future of GW.

The future of GW is represented by the so called "casual" players and especially by new players.
For both, the new system will add something to enjoy more the game, that is the satisfaction of creating items with the skin and the stats they like, without the need to deal with the "100k+XXecto no noobz offerz" morons, but just "working" a reasonable amount of time to achieve a "small" result that for them is a big one and can encourage them to go on instead of being frustrated.

A class of collectors and traders for "100k+XXXectos" of rare unique items will not keep this game alive. They just play their own minigame inside the main game, thinking that their minigame is "the" game.

If someone really "cares about" the future of GW, the only thing he/she can do should be this: spend his/her time helping newcomers to enjoy the game.

An example, just something happened to me yesterday.
I was in Shing Jea with one of my mule characters (yes I have 4 of them, I contributed to A.net buying 2 extra slots for each account lol) by the storage, and an elementalist opened a trade window offering me a red dye, a purple katana, a vial of ink and another cheap item. I closed the trade window, then I saw him/her opening with another character, with no success again.
I pm the ele, and the dialog was:
"do you need money?"
"yes, I have a lot of things to do with it!"
"how much do you need?"
"600g"

OMG!

I felt really ashamed, I'm not a uber rich player but anyway I have 500k in my storage, 600g for me is nothing but I realize that for a newcomer represents at least an acceptable armor to begin the game. I gave him/her 3k and then I spent some time explaining to save gold for armors and how to acquire collectors weapons which are the best to play the game.

I hope I did something that helped a new player in the early stages of the game, but I'm aware that giving gold is nothing compared to give to other players the most important resource we have in game: our time, and possibly our experience.

I have a friend I usually play with, he's got 8 PvE character who have completed both Tyria and Cantha, all his chars have 1,5k armors, the only green and gold weapons he has are those he dropped in game, probably he has no more than 20k in his storage, anyway he is called all the time by guildmates and lots of other people who know him as a skilled and reliable player and want him for help in missions.

The same thing doesn't happen to me, because I play alone for a good part of the time, and since I want the gold 15^50 weapons with the skins I like (which are not the 1337 ones but the ones "I" like) I spend a lot of time farming greens or just farming gold.

The result is that I have 4x15k armors perfectly runed (and the other 4 chars with 1,5k also with sup vigors and I didn't buy the 15k simply because I didn't like the look) 5-6 "perfect" gold weapons over 100k, 500k in storage + several superior vigors for the future armors, but they call him and not me.

If I will be able to spend less time farming for equipment, and more playing the game together with other people and also with newcomers, my personal game experience will be furtherly improved.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 09, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

The future of GW is represented by the so called "casual" players and especially by new players.
For both, the new system will add something to enjoy more the game, that is the satisfaction of creating items with the skin and the stats they like, without the need to deal with the "100k+XXecto no noobz offerz" morons, but just "working" a reasonable amount of time to achieve a "small" result that for them is a big one and can encourage them to go on instead of being frustrated.

A class of collectors and traders for "100k+XXXectos" of rare unique items will not keep this game alive. They just play their own minigame inside the main game, thinking that their minigame is "the" game.

If someone really "cares about" the future of GW, the only thing he/she can do should be this: spend his/her time helping newcomers to enjoy the game.

An example, just something happened to me yesterday.
I was in Shing Jea with one of my mule characters (yes I have 4 of them, I contributed to A.net buying 2 extra slots for each account lol) by the storage, and an elementalist opened a trade window offering me a red dye, a purple katana, a vial of ink and another cheap item. I closed the trade window, then I saw him/her opening with another character, with no success again.
I pm the ele, and the dialog was:
"do you need money?"
"yes, I have a lot of things to do with it!"
"how much do you need?"
"600g"

OMG!

I felt really ashamed, I'm not a uber rich player but anyway I have 500k in my storage, 600g for me is nothing but I realize that for a newcomer represents at least an acceptable armor to begin the game. I gave him/her 3k and then I spent some time explaining to save gold for armors and how to acquire collectors weapons which are the best to play the game.

I hope I did something that helped a new player in the early stages of the game, but I'm aware that giving gold is nothing compared to give to other players the most important resource we have in game: our time, and possibly our experience.

Wow, a kindred spirit

I find it much more fulfilling to help a new player to understand the basic concepts of, and enjoy Guild Wars, than I get from seeing a lot of gold in my storage.

In the interest of expediency I spent 1/3rd more than I should have on the items I wanted, because I could get them as a set last night. Now I'm broke as a joke, so you've got more gold than I do atm. However, we both seem to share the attitude that it's just VIRTUAL money and isn't the focus of the game itself.

I can often be found with my monk (Santa Claws) giving away nice low req equipment to low level players. I've seen them turn around and sell it, but at the same time perhaps the platinum is more beneficial to them - at those early levels after you've just begun playing even a few plat seems like a nice chunk of change (besides after I give it away I don't care what happens to it, even if it's a req 8 Gothic +15-5e[although I do try to ensure it's a low level character of the appropriate class so they may actually put it to use]).

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 09, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I'd like to address the arguments that state "You should work for the rare skins and not just be given them to you."

Since when did anyone say that items should be given? Changing the salvaging system doesnt change the fact that you still have to BUY or work/farm/trade for the mods/skins/inscriptions that you need.

Right now, the requirement of work needed to get certain things are FAR FAR TOO HIGH. Meaning that the prices are far too high. This new salvaging system not only gives people more options and versatility in making their weapons, but also lowers the insane prices that have erupted in this game.

Also, if you believe that this new system will kill your trading way of life, you're very wrong. This certainly won't kill trading. It won't kill the economy. It might kill your ego boost from a sale of a 100k +56 ecto item but I think we can all live with that.

seut · Oct 09, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Nowadays when you find e.g. a Gothic Sword 14^50 req.10, you can sell it with a little luck for 5-10k. Half of a 15k armor piece gained.
After inscriptions are introduced (and they work how we expect them to) this sword will be direct to merchant fodder. Non perfect inscription and requirement to high for selling. About 400g gained.
I don't care about the super highend rares market of zodiacs & crystallines, but i fear that the mid range market will cease to exist and if a casual player wants a piece of 15k, he must grind for gold.
The inscriptions market will be controlled by ShingJae chest runners, Gates of Kryta farmers, etc. No gold to get there.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 09, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

The inscriptions market will be controlled by ShingJae chest runners, Gates of Kryta farmers, etc. No gold to get there.

Perhaps Anet has anticipated people salivating at the idea of low end chest runs to harvest inscriptions, and will make it less viable than people currently theorize?

Imagine, an Inscription Kit costs 5 plat, and has 10 uses. When you use it on an item at or near max, you have a near 90% or so chance to harvest the inscription. Used on a low end item, you could have a 10-20% chance of actually removing the inscription (and if they aren't just part of the salvage kits, perhaps one attempt at removal could destroy the inscription, causing you to have to try again on another item. Then you'd be looking at spending 5400 gold for 10 attempts that have a high chance of failure, or 11k to have a much higher chance to remove the inscription)? Perhaps that would make inscriptions more than just something people can easily aquire and sell for inflated costs? I have noticed myself that when a +5e staff head or something is on a low end gold, the chances of salvaging it (instead of 6 wood planks) are not as good as they are if the item is a higher req... Just my two cents

The bottom line is it's Anet's sollution to this that I look forward to seeing, not idle speculation that this will bring about total economic collapse and we'll all be farming dirt (Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here!)

Perhaps the people that will be hardest hit are the people who make money off of turning items around without farming or anything, and are upset that their way of play may be altered. (Help, help, I'm being repressed!)

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 09, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

Nowadays when you find e.g. a Gothic Sword 14^50 req.10, you can sell it with a little luck for 5-10k. Half of a 15k armor piece gained.
After inscriptions are introduced (and they work how we expect them to) this sword will be direct to merchant fodder. Non perfect inscription and requirement to high for selling. About 400g gained.

Pfft. You looking at it the wrong way. The new salvaging system will actually make almost everything worth something because now you can take that Gothic Sword 14^50 and put a 15^50 on it instead. And everything that is worthless right now (e.g. clean max weapons with no inherant mods) will be useful to a lot of people who dont care if it's a gold weapon, as long as it's max damage.

This will distribute the value of weapons over a wider spread, instead of in a handful of items. And why is that bad? It's only bad for people who only play the game in a trading economy type of way and who only get rich from making those few big sales off of a few very high priced items.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 09, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Pfft. You looking at it the wrong way. The new salvaging system will actually make almost everything worth something because now you can take that Gothic Sword 14^50 and put a 15^50 on it instead. And everything that is worthless right now (e.g. clean max weapons with no inherant mods) will be useful to a lot of people who dont care if it's a gold weapon, as long as it's max damage.

I think his point was the req 10 being worthless, people seeking req 7-8 max as the penultimate weapons. However I tend to agree with you, but nevertheless it's plausible that req 10 14^50 wouldn't sell for more than 3-5k after the release. I don't think I'd consider it necessarily merchant fodder. However me, I'd already sell a req 10 Gothic to the merchant more often than I would to a player for a paltry sum.

seut · Oct 09, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Pfft. You looking at it the wrong way. The new salvaging system will actually make almost everything worth something because now you can take that Gothic Sword 14^50 and put a 15^50 on it instead.

Why should i waste a 15^50 on a high req. weapon, when it's possible to upgrade a req.7 white? Clean max weapons might see a higher price, but it won't be a significant increase since they drop very often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

And everything that is worthless right now (e.g. clean max weapons with no inherant mods) will be useful to a lot of people who dont care if it's a gold weapon, as long as it's max damage.

Increase in supply with stable demand results in lower prices overall. With fixed prices for 15k armor this means more drops needed.

Mordakai · Oct 09, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Well, think of it this way:

What is better for the game, lower prices on rare-modded items, or "easier" to get 15k armor?

It seems to me, that this feature of making any weapon we want cheaper will be more useful to casual gamers, than the chance to get 15k armor easier with some lucky drops on weapons (assuming "casual" players even have the patience to trade such drops, and not just go to the Merchant, either out of ignorance, or not wanting to waste time spamming "WTB XXXXX").

For people who are actively looking for things to sell in order to get FoW or 15k armor, this might make the process a little longer, but isn't that one thing people are arguing for anyway? End game grind for "vanity" items?

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 09, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious

people seeking req 7-8 max as the penultimate weapons.

What are the ultimate weapons, then?

Fluffyx · Oct 09, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

What are the ultimate weapons, then?

There are none, this is Guild Wars.

seut · Oct 09, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

What is better for the game, lower prices on rare-modded items, or "easier" to get 15k armor?

I only want to make the point that the new system will change the market and although the changes will be positive for a certain part of the population, there will also be people affected negatively and those people are not necessarily members of the "crystalline crowd".

I for myself use for my six characters 1rare weapon that i found, about a dozen green and for the most part collector/crafter blues. On the other hand most of my chars have more than one 15k armor.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 09, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

Why should i waste a 15^50 on a high req. weapon, when it's possible to upgrade a req.7 white? Clean max weapons might see a higher price, but it won't be a significant increase since they drop very often.

I never understood why people put such a high value on low req weapons. As long as you meet the requirement what does it matter? If my weapon skill attribute isnt at least 10, then why bother? Anyway, I'm sure a lot of people will still have use for a req 10 weapon. Only the people who dont know better and think that somehow a low req weapon is better will think a high req weapon is useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

Increase in supply with stable demand results in lower prices overall. With fixed prices for 15k armor this means more drops needed.

Or it means that previously "useless" weapons can now be sold for something. It might mean more drops are needed but it also means that your chances of getting something that can be useful are now increased. Value is now distributed more widely instead of concentrated in that ONE single "uber" drop. Besides, I got 3 sets of 15k armor without ever having to sell items to players.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 09, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffyx

There are none, this is Guild Wars.

QFT

Skill > Pretty/Low Req Items

Please don't use that quote as a reason to start harping that people should have to buy rare skinned weapons from -you- for 100k+__ecto, or use collectors items. We've been down that road before

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Besides, I got 3 sets of 15k armor without ever having to sell items to players.

Zomg! You mean you can actually aquire what you're after by playing the game!?! Wow, who would've thunk it?

seut · Oct 09, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Or it means that previously "useless" weapons can now be sold for something. It might mean more drops are needed but it also means that your chances of getting something that can be useful are now increased. Value is now distributed more widely instead of concentrated in that ONE single "uber" drop.

As we can see with the increased dropping Superior Absorption runes, the demand will be saturated after a while and the price will balance out at a very low level. Same thing will happen to common clean max skins.

I my opinion the new system will backfire and result in more grind for gold for casual players so they can afford non-vanity stuff like skills and vigor runes.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 09, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

I my opinion the new system will backfire and result in more grind for gold for casual players so they can afford non-vanity stuff like skills and vigor runes.

I really doubt that. Most casual players dont even bother selling/trading weapons to other players. Heck, I dont consider myself casual and still I dont bother playing the player economy. So their gold grinding wont change for most people.

And skills and vigor runes were always seen as too pricey. 1k per skill is a bit much when there are hundreds of them out there....but that's a different debate...

Akhilleus · Oct 10, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I think the point was, there is no evidence Anet intended for rare skins to sell for millions of gold. There is proof Anet wanted 15k armor to sell for 75k for a set, plus materials.

Stake, not steak. (not trying to be an ass)

Anyway, what if this Inscription thing actually makes for a better gaming experience for the people you know and care about?

That would be fantastic! People could just pick the one armor skin they want the most, and the customize it on the fly to whatever they want.

Would solve the "armor swapping" advantage in PvP, too, (assuming PvPers would have access to the same system).

i wrote that fairly late, and ive barely slept in the past 2 months...so sue me for spelling it wrong, along with about the other 5 trillion spelling errors ive made on this thread. as long as its understandible, im fine with it ^-
B: it may make their lives better, certainly in the immidiate future they would love it, as they'd have some of the things they've wanted for a while very quickly...however, most people i know, want something to do after they've beaten the game, and the ones who already have may not be the most wealthy players, but they still appreciate meta-game activities.
all in all; its a game. and because its just a game, and not some sort of tangible good, all you get out of it is a sense of accomplishment when you complete the game or a task within it, and the fun required in order to complete said task. i know i cant speak for everyone, but with myself and many people i know, the longer it takes to do something, generally the more fun they have doing it. look at how many people complained that factions was so short compared to prophecies, many people like a longer drawn out game that they can spend their time working on; not necissarily one they can complete and have everything mastered in within a few hours or days.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 10, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

i know i cant speak for everyone, but with myself and many people i know, the longer it takes to do something, generally the more fun they have doing it. look at how many people complained that factions was so short compared to prophecies, many people like a longer drawn out game that they can spend their time working on; not necissarily one they can complete and have everything mastered in within a few hours or days.

There's a difference between something that is actually too short in CONTENT (Factions) and artificially giving the appearance of more content by making people chase after that carrot on a stick (i.e. making people do something longer)

I certainly hope people are intelligent enough not to fall for the carrot on a stick trick and instead enjoy the actual gameplay itself. Why fall into the trap that every other MMO seems to have?

Loviatar · Oct 10, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

ihowever, most people i know, want something to do after they've beaten the game.

read a book play something else until the next chapter comes out then enjoy that.

as for over fast depending on reviewer this lasted 16-20 hours and cost 50 bucks with almost no replay value.

review for example

Quote:

Fable: The Lost Chapters purports to be about a third larger than the original game and the majority of these additions are extra optional quests. Patronizing the ladies at the Darkwood Bordello or working your way up through the fight clubs located in each town will give your character some more ways to pass the time but I still found myself running through the whole game in under 20 hours. (If you explore every nook and cranny in the game, you can probably stretch the gameplay out to twice as long but the rewards for doing so are slight.) The only addition to the main story quests comes right at the very end of the game and feels really tacked on.

it got good ratings